RED CLIFF
An Interview with Johnn Woo
by Max Evry


November 19, 2009



Action maestro John Woo takes an interesting detour from his usual gun-fu blast-a-thons (“The Killer”, “Face/Off”) in his new historical epic “Red Cliff”. His first Chinese-language film in over 15-years and already a blockbuster in Asia, Woo tells the true tale that occurred in 208 A.D. during the waning reign of the Han Dynasty as the Emperor and his Prime Minister wage war on the kingdoms of southern and western China. To defend themselves these two kingdoms form an alliance that proves to be an unexpected match for the invading forces.

Woo sat down with us in New York to discuss the new film, why he re-edited it from its original 4-hour version, and tells us the movie he’d most like to make next… a musical!

Q: We know this movie is half as long as was originally intended. How did you decide to make it shorter? JOHN WOO: We had made a decision before we started shooting. We realized the Asian audience, especially the Chinese, are all familiar with this part of history. We could spend a lot more time developing the characters and tell more of the story because the Asian people love to see more. American audiences are not as familiar with this part of history and the characters, so we decided to focus on the main storyline and the key characters. The distributors from Europe said that western audiences prefer to watch a foreign film with subtitles but not longer than 2-hours-and-fifteen-minutes. So we decided to make two versions, one for the Asian market and another for international, including Europe and United States. It is not a kung fu movie. You have to make sure the people not as familiar with our history can understand the story and background so they can get into the film right away.

Q: This is your first Chinese-language film since “Hard Boiled”. As a filmmaker, what were some freedoms you re-discovered that you had missed during your time in Hollywood?

WOO: It’s pretty easy to make a film in China. A few years ago I just walked into the office and let them know I wanted to make a movie called “Red Cliff” and they were so excited. They said, “Let’s do it!”. It’s that simple. We approached them without a script, just an outline, and that was it. In Hollywood they take a much longer time to set up a project, it’s hard to even make any decision because you have to listen to so many people. You take a lot of meetings. You have to know how to talk. I’m not a good talker. They want to hear what your idea is. In China they’re all familiar with this part of history so there’s no problem. We also had huge support from the government. We had the Army supporting us, all the soldiers are real soldiers playing the fighters. We took some time to train them but they are already dedicated. There are so many talented young filmmakers in China. They all wanted to learn, even though they have the same working style as Hollywood they still want to learn more. That’s why I created such big scenes, to let them work with the foreign crew, the Americans, the Koreans, they all worked together and learned from each other. The government really loves movies, so to shoot the movie in China gave me a lot of good inspiration. I could shoot the movie in a very beautiful landscape in a country I love! Everything is so modern right now. They have a huge soundstage the size of Universal Studios. They have 16 soundstages, all kinds of modern equipment and facilities. I was happy making this film in China.

Q: You’ve worked with Tony Leung in the past on such films as “Bullet in the Head” and “Hard Boiled”. What was it like getting back in the saddle and working with him again? WOO: Tony and I have known each other through the years. We don’t need to talk much on the set. Tony’s a good friend and he’s a man with a great heart. He’s getting more mature, more charming, and more charisma. At his age… he’s not too old!... he’s still able to do most of the actions himself, no matter how tired he was. He’ll just do it. He’s so dedicated. It’s nice to work with someone you know as a friend. He gave his performance, and he took care of the other actors. He’s a big star and he had no attitudes. Sometimes I got a shot then told him to go back to the trailer to get some rest. He’s wearing a very heavy costume, 20 pounds, on a very hot day, but he didn’t go. He wanted to stay on the set and didn’t take the helm off. It made the actors feel so comfortable, ‘cause he knew I was busy on something else, so he helped me take care of them. The movie was so tough. He’s actually playing a real character in the film, Zhou Yu, but he’s a totally different person from the book. In the book Zhou Yu is narrow minded, selfish! So Tony Leung made it different. He took everything very seriously.

Q: In the beginning of the film we are thrown into these huge battle scenes with many different characters. What did you do to make it clear who everyone was and what was going on for audiences who were unfamiliar with the story?

WOO: We tried to make it as clear as possible. We did the same thing they did for the Japanese version. They used a voiceover to explain the history and background, and subtitles to introduce each character. I think that’s the way western audiences can catch the story right away without any confusion. We had screened the Asian version for a few of our American friends and they got confused. They thought Guan Yu and the big guy with the beard, Zhang Fei, were the same person! But they look so much different! So we decided to use the voiceover and subtitle to explain the relationship. It worked pretty well, and made it easy to get involved with the story and characters. Also, when we were designing the scenes, we decided the flags would be red was for the heroes and black was for the enemy, since the costumes were so similar.

Q: What do you think western audiences will get from the film? WOO: I prefer watching this as a movie instead of a historical film. I prefer western audiences to watch it as a movie with nothing to do with history, that’s why I made so many changes. It’s difficult to understand the meaning of the three kingdoms, between Xiao Qiao and Cao Cao, it’s a lot of work to understand that. I’m trying to make the movie more international, but have the Asian audience still feel this is the story they knew and characters they remembered. I made quite a few changes. I tried to make them more human instead of superheroes. I also increased the female roles which weren’t in the book, to show that classical women had the beauty but also the great personality. Beneath their gracefulness they were very brave and intelligent just like the women nowadays. Because it’s a war movie I tried to stress that there were no winners, a kind of anti-war message.

Q: You are known for your well-orchestrated gun ballets, for doing that kind of action. What made you decide to make such a change by doing a historical epic?

WOO: I wanted to make this movie for over 20 years. I grew up with the story and really liked the challenges and the theme of the weakest beating the strongest. It’s very encouraging. A much smaller can defeat a larger, more powerful enemy through a combination of teamwork and courage. It always attracted me. I also love the strategy, the war tactics that come from the story. The burning ship sequence is a very famous in Chinese history. Most Chinese and Japanese and Korean were so familiar with that story, our hero using ten little boats to set the entire enemy navy on fire. That was a brilliant strategy. It’s a great challenge for whoever is the director. It’s never been don before in any Chinese movie history, and that’s why I wanted to make this movie. I also knew that the western audience was so familiar with our Kung Fu movies. They had seen the beautiful “Hero” and “Crouching Tiger”, but Kung Fu is only part of our culture. I also use the Chinese music with Tony Leung playing the instruments. Also when the wife uses tea to conquer the enemy. What a peaceful way to do it! I also wanted people to know that football actually started in China almost 3000 years ago. It was approved by the world football society. In old times they would use the game to train soldiers for speed, teamwork, to train the body. Football started in China. When I screened the film in Europe they said, “You put a modern game in the film!” I said it’s not a modern game, I let them know that Cao Cao the prime minister loved the game and used it to train the soldiers. One of the biggest reasons I did this movie was to show the other side of China, the spirit, the wisdom. That’s why I made so many changes. It’s not just a historical documentary for The History Channel. This is a film.

Q: You mentioned this was a departure for you. Are there any other genres you’d like to work in? You’ve said in the past you wanted to make a musical, correct? WOO: Yeah, a musical, yeah! I have a script for a musical for 12 years that I paid for with my own money. I still want to make a musical. It’s an original, not from any well-known existing musical. It’s an action musical. (laughs) It’s true! We have a very good script, I wanted to make it, but it’s hard to interest studios to make a musical right now. It’s in English. I love “All That Jazz”, Singing in the Rain”, “West Side Story”. I miss musicals.